When the producers of the chart-topping podcast The Diary of a CEO, and its host Steven Bartlett, learned they had landed an interview with Volodymyr Zelensky, there was doubtless a lot of high fiving in the office. A reported seven months in the planning, the interview was conducted in person in Brussels in mid-October, with the assistance of two translators, and ran to nearly two hours. With the Ukrainian president’s permission, it used AI technology to create an English language version of his answers, which were then delivered in a convincing facsimile of his voice. All in all, quite the coup.
In the resulting episode, Zelensky talks with dignity and depth about the day of the Russian invasion in 2022; why he refused to flee Kyiv; the complex geopolitics of Ukraine and its history; the atrocities committed by Russian soldiers; and the psychological burden of command. Naturally, there is much discussion of morality and the “evil” actions of Putin and his army, and of the failure of the Trump administration to lend its support. But what should we make of Zelensky’s decision to appear on a podcast that wilfully spreads misinformation and that is run and hosted by a figure who habitually puts profit over truth?
The Diary of a CEO was launched in 2017 with the very reasonable aim of chronicling its host’s journey to success and providing listeners with business advice from top-flight entrepreneurs. But as the podcasting universe expanded and the battle for ears and eyeballs intensified, that noble aim was abandoned and Bartlett – whose background is in marketing – made the nakedly cynical move into the health and wellness space and the political right.
When, nearly two years ago, the BBC World Service investigated the podcast, it found 15 health-related episodes in which guests shared misinformation – including discredited anti-vaccine theories and a claim that cancer can be treated by following a keto diet. Did these findings bring an attack of conscience and persuade Bartlett to do better? They did not. If anything, the series doubled down in its platforming of charlatans and cranks and so-called thinkers whose philosophies range from dodgy to downright dangerous.
Those visiting the podcast’s page on YouTube are now assailed by comically dramatic headlines that give the Daily Star a run for its money. Among them: “Aliens Are Fighting Above Us”, “You’re Dead Loved Ones Aren’t Gone” and “A Tsunami is Coming”.
All of which brings us to the question of why Zelensky chose The Diary of a CEO – now Britain’s answer to The Joe Rogan Experience and the scourge of an audio industry crying out for regulation – to bare his soul and highlight the ongoing nightmare endured by Ukrainians?
The answer, of course, is reach. Despite its pivot into Cranksville, the series continues to pull vast audiences – it regularly tops the podcast charts and, according to Forbes, earns Bartlett a tidy £45m a year. Few podcasters other than Bartlett would have had the resources to distribute the show across the world and publish in 25 languages.
We can’t know whether Zelensky is personally au fait with the series and its problematic practices; he does, after all, have a lot on his plate. What we can assume is his researchers knew exactly what they were doing and chose pragmatism. Zelensky has had to get used to rubbing shoulders with all types of powerful figures to further the interests of Ukraine and keep the war in the spotlight, and this is no different.
The irony of all this is that the latest instalment of The Diary of a CEO stands out as one of the better ones. It’s a shame – but not a surprise – that Bartlett chooses not to dig into the stickier aspects of the Zelensky presidency, such as the corruption scandal that led to the resignation of Ukraine’s energy and justice ministers, or the accusations that he has used the war to crush his political opponents and retain power; such are the perils of having business leaders rather than journalists hosting podcasts.
But the conversation is revealing about the brutality of the Russian invasion, the terrible human cost and the weight of wartime leadership. When Bartlett tells Zelensky he can see tears in his eyes, it’s with great poignancy that the Ukrainian leader replies: “I am a human being. I am not ashamed to be who I am.”